10 responses

  1. coturnix
    April 4, 2012

    A market, in the most general sense, is a way to limited resources among unlimited desires using a framework of some kind of property. that’s weird definition, but let’s see where it goes… in a material possessions’ world, material possessions are always limited, and people’s desire to use them are close to unlimited, therefore people bid for things, and things have value. But in the world of intellectual ‘things’, and particularly books, situation seems to be getting quite reversed. The amount of time that people can spend on reading books is severely limited, just like people are. Strange consequence of this is that already amount of books written is more than people can possibly read. Therefore, the limited resource is people, and … what next? There is a place for a market, quite different from a normal market, but still a free market according to given definition, and how is it going to embed itself into ‘regular’ market? I don’t know, but it is interesting topic to ponder…

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  2. JdL
    April 4, 2012

    My first thought was a knee-jerk reaction: ‘That would be terrible — we need copyright protection!’ But when I thought about how I’ve never had to enforce a copyright in all my years writing…

    Did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, the reason you’ve never had to enforce copyright is precisely because there IS a copyright law which deterred people from ripping off your work?

    You anti-copyright types seem to have a bit of trouble embracing logical thinking.

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  3. Christopher Gronlund
    April 4, 2012

    Coturnix: I think the writers who would like to see the amount of books published limited definitely see it as, “There are too many books watering down the market, making it harder for me.” Your point is definitely interesting to ponder. What I find interesting about those who argue “Too many books–not enough people,” is that their solution is to limit the number of books published…not figure out ways to get more people reading.

    I definitely look forward to seeing where things go next, and how new opportunities and markets will find their light.

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  4. Christopher Gronlund
    April 4, 2012

    JdL: Did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, the reason you’ve never had to enforce copyright is precisely because there IS a copyright law which deterred people from ripping off your work?

    I don’t see copyright protecting me from having my work ripped off. Every writer I’m friends with, especially comic book writers, has had their work ripped off (by your definition)…quite regularly. Copyright does not stop people from downloading the series or novels they write. The interesting thing is most of these friends are fine with it because, as their work is shared, they’ve seen their sales rise. Now, I’m not saying writers must accept that’s just the way it is, but the writers, musicians, and artists I know recognize that it’s helped them. What worries them is when other people use copyright law to try to stop people like them from pursuing what they love.

    When a group of filmmakers play by the rules and are licensed to make a film based on a property and a studio doing something similar suppresses that right, I have a problem with it. People using public domain music deal with companies claiming they own the copyright on classical pieces composed in the 1700s and recorded by musicians releasing their recordings under Creative Commons licenses. Do you really find that okay? Elderly people who don’t even know what an MP3 file is receiving letters saying, “Pay up, or we’ll take you to court.”

    I don’t think that’s right.

    I’ve had friends who spend a lot of time getting movies, music, and stories from bit torrents. Their collections, in some cases, are so large that there’s no way they can consume it all. Copyright does not deter them one bit.

    If somebody wants to steal my writing (if you want to call it stealing; I don’t, because I’m fine with people copying and trading my work), they’re going to steal it. Just because I’m okay with it, do not think I believe every writer should be like me. If one wants to try enforcing their copyright, I won’t begrudge them that right. (Even though I do think it’s a path to madness in many cases.) I’ve seen some friends have success with cease and desist letters, but most — when they see just hard a battle it’s become — just give up. The people who seem to be “winning” are those winning cases against parents whose kids downloaded — in some cases — a handful of tunes and are faced with settlements reaching 6 figures.

    I have yet to see a creator like me, the kind of person copyright is supposed to protect, win a copyright case in their favor reaching even 4 figures. (I’m not saying it’s never happened — I’m just saying I haven’t seen it.) Of the people I know, the closest thing to victory is either somebody abiding by a cease and desist letter, or convincing the person who took their work to pay a couple hundred dollars and stop pawning the writer’s stuff off as their own.

    You anti-copyright types seem to have a bit of trouble embracing logical thinking.

    An interesting thing: I’m friends with a private investigator who backs SOPA and makes a decent living tracking down people who make counterfeit goods. Another friend helps people enforce copyrights (with victory usually being a cease and desist letter that’s heeded). We chat and see things differently, but I never address them as “You copyright types,” and then accuse them of not understanding logic. I think it’s much too easy to brand an entire group as I see fit. Apparently, you don’t.

    I am not an “anti-copyright” type. I am not out there advocating for the destruction of copyright because really — I just want to do my thing and write. Personally, I don’t care if there’s copyright or if there isn’t copyright; I will write in either case. I wrote this entry because I was invited to, and it’s a subject I’ve found very interesting since the evening a friend asked me how I’d function as a writer in a world without copyright.

    Experience tells me that copyright doesn’t help people like me — the people it was created to protect. I don’t say this based on some theory I have; it’s based off of many friends who have seen their work traded online and have had no luck stopping it. At the same time, I’ve seen people as close to me as my wife have companies that can afford to coerce people claim rights to things they didn’t create. Logic and many other things tell me that’s not right, and maybe it’s time to think of other ways of doing things. If that includes the end of copyright, so be it. I am a resourceful person and would survive without it; in part, because it does very little for many creative people I know.

    Since you ended accusing me of not being capable of logic, I’ll stoop to your level and make this point again: you say the reason I’ve never had to enforce copyright is because copyright exists. But right now you can go to Demonoid or many other sites online and find pretty much whatever you want for free. Copyright law is not deterring a thing. It’s clear it’s not working as it was meant to — any logical person can see that.

    So for me, the conversation becomes, “What next?” Like Coturnix above, I will ponder other ways of doing things…because what we’ve been doing isn’t working; in fact, a logical person can argue that it’s only gotten worse.

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  5. Christopher Gronlund
    April 4, 2012

    JdL: I’m genuinely interested in discussing reasons for and against copyright. I’m also interested in seeing why people stand where they do on issues. It seems fair to assume you believe creators need copyright protection? And I won’t fault that. I think it’s also safe to assume that you’d have issue, were you me, if somebody copied and traded your stories?

    What I’m really interested in is where you stand on companies using copyright against creators, in the examples I’ve included in my first reply to you. Do you feel that the concept of smaller creators actually being protected by copyright is worth allowing such a level of coercion that laws like the proposed SOPA are a possible reality? (I say “concept” because a look at any bit torrent site proves copyright doesn’t protect creators like me.)

    Where do you draw the line when it comes to enforcing copyright? If I write a story about a family traveling cross country in a possessed station wagon and I’m close to releasing it and you have a similar story about a family traveling cross country in a possessed station wagon, do I have the right to try to stop you (even though we came up with the ideas independently), simply because I’m a step closer than you to release? Because there have been cases where similar things have occurred, and if I have a lot of money, I can make your life miserable as I try to lay claim to an idea.

    I really do want to hear your side, and hear what your stake in copyright is…and why you think copyright protects people like me when I know people who have their work available for free on bit torrents and other places online against their will. (But just not caring about it anymore.)

    Please chime in with more than, “Did it ever occur to you who can’t grasp logic…”

    I hope I’ve made a case that yes, it’s occurred to me quite a bit and that I’ve shown that copyright doesn’t protect creators. I also hope that in my replies that you view me as somebody who doesn’t just attack when attacked and can engage in a logical discussion.

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  6. Joe
    April 5, 2012

    As a copyright lawyer, I’d just remind you that one thing to keep in mind is that copyright vest automatically – there is no need to register it does give one additional benefits tho.

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  7. Aidy
    April 6, 2012

    Writing online can be tricky. But there are standing copyright laws that will still protect writers from copyright theft and infringement. Brilliant and informative article and Christopher, great commentary as well.

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