9 responses

  1. Intellectual Property Rights
    July 4, 2011

    Very informative article; however, Intellectual Property law is one of the most lucrative fields of practice. For an attorney practicing IP Law exclusively, the scope of operations determines the remuneration. An attorney with scientific background usually gets a higher remuneration than a normal lawyer.

    Reply

  2. apotheon
    July 5, 2011

    I’m the author of this piece, Chad Perrin. Someone pointed out to me today that it was republished here. I’m glad it’s getting spread around a bit; it’s an important message that more people need to encounter.

    The text of this may be redistributed under the terms of the Open Works License, as indicated on the page from which it was harvested. The Open Works License should have accompanied this copy of the article.

    I encourage people who like the message of this article to check out the copyfree site, which discusses a licensing policy intended to emulate the conditions of a copyright-free world.

    Reply

    • Stephan Kinsella
      July 6, 2011

      Chad, I don’t understand your comment. The OWL is incomprehensible and relies on copyright. I have removed your post because of your bizarre and hypocritical copyright threat. Congratulations.

      Reply

      • apotheon
        July 6, 2011

        Wait — seriously?

        It “relies on copyright” only in that it offers a legal guarantee that recipients will not be sued for reproducing, modifying, and redistributing the content. Without such a license, any work is legally considered to fall under the protections of copyright, thus making it subject to copyright enforcement. A license like the OWL is the polar opposite of a “bizarre and hypocritical copyright threat”.

        By reproducing the text I wrote without at least providing a link to the OWL, you are basically leaving your readers with no idea whether someone will hunt them down and sue them if they redistribute the content in question.

        If you want to post the entire article *without* the license, I won’t sue you or otherwise threaten you. I had no intention of getting you to remove it from the site. I just wanted to point out that the OWL (as a protection for readers and redistributors) technically should have been included with it.

        Reply

      • Stephan Kinsella
        July 6, 2011

        Yeah, seriously.

        It “relies on copyright” only in that it offers a legal guarantee that recipients will not be sued for reproducing, modifying, and redistributing the content. Without such a license, any work is legally considered to fall under the protections of copyright, thus making it subject to copyright enforcement. A license like the OWL is the polar opposite of a “bizarre and hypocritical copyright threat”.

        OWL is incomprehensible. Just use CC if you want to be clear.

        The threat is not your OWL it is your comment posted here: “The Open Works License should have accompanied this copy of the article.” I don’t agree that it “should have”; this is normative. So your only meaning can be to tut tut and chastise me for violating your copyright. Since you have used the illegitimate right granted you by copyright to insist on what I should do, to quasi-threaten me, I’ve complied.

        By reproducing the text I wrote without at least providing a link to the OWL, you are basically leaving your readers with no idea whether someone will hunt them down and sue them if they redistribute the content in question.

        I had a link to your piece. That is enough.

        If you want to post the entire article *without* the license, I won’t sue you or otherwise threaten you.

        That is not a legally binding comment. It is just your prediction. I can’t rely on it.

        I had no intention of getting you to remove it from the site. I just wanted to point out that the OWL (as a protection for readers and redistributors) technically should have been included with it.

        In the future you ought to be careful not to use the copyright threat against people if you don’t want them to perceive it this way.

        Reply

      • apotheon
        July 6, 2011

        OWL is incomprehensible. Just use CC if you want to be clear.

        That’s funny, considering OWL is about 150 words of mostly plain English and the simpler CC licenses run past 2500 words of dense legalese, on top of which they generally include (unwanted) restrictions on how something may be displayed. I’ve actually read the CC licenses I might consider using, and they pretty uniformly suck that way.

        The threat is not your OWL it is your comment posted here: “The Open Works License should have accompanied this copy of the article.”

        That wasn’t a threat. It was a statement. A threat would be “If you don’t include the license, something bad will happen,” which I did not say.

        I don’t agree that it “should have”; this is normative.

        Fair enough. My meaning was more along the lines of this:

        “It would be a service to your readers to include at least a link to the license so that they will have some kind of notice that they are legally encouraged to fold, spindle, or mutilate the work and redistribute it to their heart’s content, rather than being discouraged from doing so under threat of litigation.”

        So your only meaning can be to tut tut and chastise me for violating your copyright.

        Incorrect. You would not know my “only meaning”, apparently, because you failed to ask.

        Since you have used the illegitimate right granted you by copyright to insist on what I should do, to quasi-threaten me, I’ve complied.

        I have not threatened you. I do not recognize it as a right; it is a privilege granted by an unethical law, and one that I attempt to defuse in a public, recipient-empowering manner by attaching a license disclaiming any privilege to sue people for redistributing my work. That’s it. I’m a little confused as to why you seem intent on insulting me and trying to make an enemy out of someone who’s just trying really hard to tell people “Here, use this, distribute it, incorporate it into derived works, be my guest; I would consider it an honor.”

        I had a link to your piece. That is enough.

        In a sane world, it would be. In this world . . . well, it’s enough to make me grateful you reposted the content, rather than merely ambivalent, but it’s not quite enough to make it clear to your readers that the author won’t try to sue them for redistributing it. If I have any complaint, that’s it. I certainly offer no threats, no matter how often you try to put threats in my mouth.

        That is not a legally binding comment. It is just your prediction. I can’t rely on it.

        The license is the legally binding comment, to the extent there is any such legally binding comment that can be made short of a signature. If you like, I can offer some other license as well, just for your benefit. What do I need to do to cause you to accept that I want you to redistribute what I said and am willing to forego any future legal action? So far, it seems like you were willing to repost only so long as there was a chance you might get sued, because until the existence of a license that specifically encourages you to republish was mentioned, you shared it with others. Now that I tell you I have specifically attempted to grant it to the world, you have — I’m pretty convinced, at this point — decided that what you want to do is “punish” me by refusing to share it with my blessing. If that’s not what you’re trying to do, tell me what I need to do to make you stop insulting me and just share what I have offered freely.

        In the future you ought to be careful not to use the copyright threat against people if you don’t want them to perceive it this way.

        In the future, you should probably try assuming good faith once in a while, rather than taking the absolute worst interpretation of something someone said and adding additional assumptions to it just to make it worse.

        I respect you as an advocate for saner law (or, rather, absence of ludicrous laws), and am a fan of many of your writings. I was happy you thought something I said worth sharing. I am baffled by your attitude hell-bent on alienating me and discouraging others from reading what I’ve written when it essentially agrees with everything I’ve seen you say on the matter.

        I wish I had not said anything at all in response to this, despite the fact that my only intention was to be helpful.

        Reply

      • Stephan Kinsella
        July 7, 2011

        Apotheon, I think I understand now what you are saying. Apologies for jumping to conclusions. I apparently did misread your comments. I think you ought to just use CC-BY or CC0, but that’s just my view. I’ll restore your post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The reason I don’t assume good faith is … just experience!

        Reply

      • apotheon
        July 7, 2011

        Thanks, Stephan.

        I would like to discuss what you see as problems with the OWL at some point, if you are interested in having that discussion, but do not wish to clutter up comments on this article any further by trying to have that conversation here. You may note the current version of the license is marked as 0.8; I’m still in the process of trying to perfect it. Feel free to contact me via the email address I used when submitting comments, if you feel the urge.

        Reply

  3. Crosbie Fitch
    July 6, 2011

    It was an excellent article!

    I’m grateful to Stephan for introducing me to another copyright abolitionist. The count is now extended to the fingers of my other hand.

    One day Stephan might link to my articles too. :-p

    As for a license, this is what I use, and only for those who insist upon being given one.

    License

    Naturally, you are free to take any liberties you wish with my published work. However, should I ever be granted the privilege of constraining your liberty then I constrain you thus: the liberties you take may not be withheld from those to whom you give my work (or your combined/derivative work), who you must similarly constrain.

    Reply

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